Gut Rumbles

February 21, 2006

i fear my government

Here is one reason why. If the authorities ever set out to get you, they probably will.

Even when you don't deserve it.


All this over a piece of ass?

I don't understand one thing. He's an attorney. Why in the hell hasn't he started suing the bastards? At the minimum file a complaint with the AG of the state.

Posted by: Cheryl on February 21, 2006 10:47 AM

For starters, when you are the object of this kind of thuggery you KNOW that the police have the local prosecutor in their pocket, plus any judges, plus the AG, and every politician who ran on being "tough on crime" plus the mayor, councilmen, et, et. Sounds simple to just say "sue em" but if you don't file the right thing in the right court you can find yourself tossed out "with prejudice" and unable to file again. Plus you are damn busy just trying to make a living and not lose your house, cars, business, et, et.
The police are MANY layers thick and corruption like this goes nearly to the top. Think the Governor is going to help? State people? The first call they make is too the thugs who are raping you who are going to assure him that YOU are the troublemaker and THEY are winning the WAR on Drugz.
The internet and the press are about your only POSSIBLE avenue.

Posted by: robert on February 21, 2006 12:54 PM

I don't know anything about this incident other than from reading the link provided and watching the video, and since I'm only getting one side of this thing, I'll reserve judgement as to whether the raid was an injustice against an innocent business by heavy handed cops with a bone to pick or a legitimate raid against a suspected criminal who happened to own a pool hall. Wouldn't be the first time a crook accused the cops of harrassment.

But after watching the video and reading the link, two quotes jumped out at me:

"...a heavily-weaponized, highly-militarized, 70-90 member SWAT raid..."

"Some of the officers are wearing polos and khaki shorts. Others are in uniform. And others are wearing cammo, black ski masks, body armor, and toting assault weapons. Some come in casually. Others come in pumping shotguns."

I didn't see anything even close to those kinds of numbers, and while I'm not sure what "heavily-weaponized, highly-militarized" means, I only saw one guy carrying a long gun for sure, either a shotgun or rifle with a light attached. SWAT? Not that I saw. Several guys wore masks, which I also do when I need to protect my UC idenity during raids. There were different uniforms, which happens when you have different agencies and units working together. But take a look at the cops entering the pool hall from the last camera angle, inside the club. Looks to me like they haven't even drawn their pistols, aside from maybe one guy in a mask, but he's wearing black gloves, and it's tough to to tell if he's just pointing his finger or his pistol. Either way, it looked like a very, very low key entry to me. Nobody put on the floor, nobody held at gunpoint.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but it's hard to call what I saw on video a hardcore SWAT raid, because I've done a few of those, and that wasn't one.

Posted by: Jack on February 21, 2006 12:59 PM

Anyone comes to my home in a mask with a gun they are a dead man. Just saying....

Posted by: lambo on February 21, 2006 01:32 PM

lambo, anybody comes to your home in a mask with a gun (assuming they're police) then you'll be the dead man.
As for what's happening with the bar owners, I can believe it. Just because someone is an officer of the law doesn't make them incorruptible. And you can have some real evil bastards in law enforcement. People who enjoy having power over others. And this happens at all levels of government.

Posted by: RayH on February 21, 2006 03:52 PM


I do intend to sue. Most likely under 42 USC 1983, i.e., as a violation of the constitutional protection against taking property w/o due process of law. In the meantime, the Virginia State Police are investigating the undercover officers and police informants based on allegations I have made that they commited perjury at the initial ABC hearing. Thise allegations are included in memorandumI have provided to the state police that are based soslely on citations from the formal record of that hearing (750 pages of sworn testimony and 22 Exhibits). Further, I'm preparing an appeal of the decision against us at that hearing. The federal suit will await the outcome of the foregoing which, hopefully, will strengthen our case.


The Manassas Park Police have been putting out stories about my kid being a big time cocaine dealer/user since at least 2001. If you read the fact portion of the brief, which is also posted on "TheAgitator" you'll get the full story. Of course, over all that time, and despite numerous sting attempts, there have never been any charges. I don't expect to be able to convince you, but I will have my day about this defamation in court.

By the way, how many men would you use to do an ABC inspection?

Posted by: Neil Ruttenberg on February 21, 2006 06:33 PM

Himmler would be proud.

Posted by: rightisright on February 21, 2006 06:45 PM

Neil, You won't convince Jack because he's a law enforcement officer himself. Law enforcement officers - most of whom are good guys I might add - develop an "us against them" attitude over time. It's understandable because they deal with the underside of society on a day to day basis. However, what that means for the ordinary citizen - "civilians" as they call us - is that in their minds accused = you've done something wrong, and charged = guilty. If they are proven or shown to be wrong, they take it very hard.

Posted by: Roy on February 21, 2006 08:50 PM

All I need to know about law enforcement comes from their fervent belief that the murder of a police is worse than the murder of a citizen.

Posted by: Brett on February 22, 2006 05:59 PM
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