Gut Rumbles

August 03, 2005

it's money, isn't it?

I've written before about paying a fine with pennies and I don't see why any judge should be pissed off about someone doing that. A penny is still legal tender, isn't it? If you believe that paying an unjust fine is a pain in your ass, why shouldn't you be allowed to be just as big a pain in the ass when you pay it? Let those tax-crazed fuckers count it. Come and arrest me if I'm a penny short.

Bejus! Government not only taxes you to death (and beyond) but it wants "its" money in a certain form, too. Fuck that idea.

We rebelled against Great Britain over a tax on tea. Now, we allow the government to tax us to death (and beyond) and have them tell us HOW TO PAY THEM, too.

We've come a long way since the American Revolution, haven't we? We have a more tyrannical government now than we did back then.


Taxation without representation sucks, but taxation WITH representation isn't too hot either

Posted by: Yogimus on August 3, 2005 05:49 PM

I could be wrong but I think it went something like "taxation without representation". Unfortunately, someone who represents us is voting for the it isn't exactly the same.

Posted by: Kelly on August 3, 2005 05:49 PM

We've come a long way since the American Revolution, haven't we? We have a more tyrannical government now than we did back then.

The last real attempt to check the tyranny of an all-powerful central government, controlled by those who saw no problem with such, was when our Southern grandfathers took up arms.

I cant remember what astute yankee (operative word here) said it, but it went that:

"States Rights...was dealt a staggering blow. The worst fears of the boys in Gray are now a fact of American life."

"States Rights" is nothing less than the 9th and 10th Amendments to the Constitution. I have a feeling even the boys in blue would be equally appalled...

Posted by: Randy (TexasReb) on August 3, 2005 05:50 PM

I wonder how long he had to wait for the change? Probably came out ahead when you figure the time it would take to roll that many pennies at fifty at a roll. Gotdamn! If it wasn't for the damn sales tax we could do away from pennies.

Posted by: GUYK on August 3, 2005 06:35 PM

I just got one of those crazy, beer-induced, brainstorms, that hit me in crazy, beer-induced moments.
Hell, lets start some kind of grass-roots movement to pay the "death tax", (y'all know what I mean) or whatever else, with pennies.

Then let it lead where it may...

Posted by: Randy (TexasReb) on August 3, 2005 06:44 PM

His mistake was showing up at all. I'm sure the FedEx guy would be less than amused at having to pick up a few hundred bucks worth of pennies, but, they'd have to deliver it, and the fine would have to be recorded as paid.

Posted by: Mr. Lion on August 3, 2005 07:05 PM

I say pay them in pennies with 1/4 cut off them. After all 50% is legal tender.

Posted by: gravdigr on August 3, 2005 07:45 PM

We've come a long way since the American Revolution, haven't we? We have a more tyrannical government now than we did back then.Might have something to do with the fact our present tyrannical government is "in-house".... in fact, roughly 10 miles from me... not 3000 miles away. Shit happens much faster to us now.

Posted by: Horrabin on August 3, 2005 07:53 PM

I can't remember where, but I believe I read that coin wasn't considered legal tender, therefore, if someone doesn't want to take pennies to settle a debt, they didn't have to.

Posted by: Scott G on August 3, 2005 09:03 PM


Ok . . . several weeks ago, you admitted the war was "probably" unconstitutional. Despite your caveat in quotations, you know it to be true. Last night you deviated, pretending what you didn't know made you certain you were right that we should be at war anyway.

Now, that is a bit of illogic you need to resolve.

Tonight, you did resolve it with your bit about "pennies." A government is never more tyrannical--demanding citizens become subjects and do what government says--when?


And when it is an illegal war, in which Congress refused to declare war and instead voted to let the executive branch perform the duties of the legislative branch (an incredible breach of constitutional responsibility!) . . .

How much more tyrannical can "tyrannical" become.

You have all the dots, and your pencil. You have begun to connect said dots.

Stay the course, Dude.

:-) jb

Posted by: jb on August 3, 2005 10:06 PM

And if the constitution is meaningless, why not just start sending the lefties into gas chambers? Hell, a couple of cows and some rubber hose... we could set up ovens the likes of which this world has never seen!

Posted by: Yogimus on August 4, 2005 12:46 AM

Shit, I've gotta remember to go down and pay a $127.00 fine tomorrow. I don't have enough pennies, but maybe some of my loose change could make up part of it. The fine was actually $50.00 but the "court costs" make up the rest of it. Damn, court is getting too expensive any more.

Posted by: StinKerr on August 4, 2005 03:01 AM


It must be so satisfying to be so superior to everyone else.

In case you haven't noticed, Rob doesn't have any requirements that all opinions and suppositions presented here in his comments must be backed up by quoting chapter and verse to your satisfaction. You come across as a pedantic, arrogant buffoon.

Unfortunately, you are also FULL OF SHIT.

Scott was honest enough to clearly state that he was trying to recollect something he'd read some time ago, so he could be excused if incorrect.. You, on the other hand, promptly mounted your high horse and insisted that You were the Oracle of Knowledge about the subject and you declared that FEDERAL LAW stated pennies must be accepted. No need for you to actually back your ass up, as you demand Scott do. You simply have to declare it for it to be true, right?


Scott's recollection is perfectly accurate. In the US, there is no federal law requiring that coins be accepted as legal tender for satisfaction of a debt. The payor is certainly entitled to offer payment in such form, but the recipient is equally entitled to decline it as unacceptable (hence payees being able to refuse payment in large bills due to counterfeitting concerns, for example).

Similar thing applies here in Canada. Coinage is only deemed legal tender up to certain amounts.

Still want to argue your position? Take it up with the United States Treasury.

Doncha just hate it when you ridicule someone in public for being stupid when in fact it's you that turns out to be the idiot? But that's the risk you take when you insist on being an arrogant blowhard.

You talk about needing to show up with a full deck? Looks to me like you're not even up to a quick game of Go Fish. I'd say you owe Scott an apology, huh?


Posted by: Light & Dark on August 4, 2005 05:03 AM

Most countries have laws regarding legal tender, which includes rules about how many coins can be used to pay a debt. This was done to prevent someone causing the person owed the debt from having to cope with large quantities of coins. It does not take much imagination to see that a couple of thousand dollars could become a burden in more ways than one.

Posted by: John the Trog on August 4, 2005 09:52 AM

I'll be damned, I though jb the troll had crawled off and died!

Posted by: GUYK on August 4, 2005 10:12 AM

No, Guy he had one more shot to take I guess. Anyway, I looked it up and indeed according to the US Treasury, nickels and pennies were declared legal tender in 1965. But it also says that only the government is obligated to take any tender at any time. Paul is right, a creditor can refuse any type of tender if he or she doesn't want it. Example, when a convenience store says no bills larger than a $20 accepted. It's within their right to refuse larger bills. So I wouldn't take a ton of pennies anywhere to pay a bill, I'd just have to lug them home!

And no worries about any apologies, it's all part of being on the web. Schizo-troll doesn't bother me.


Posted by: Scott G on August 4, 2005 04:44 PM
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