June 13, 2005
san francisco logic
Okay, you have two pit bulls who are behaving "aggressively" and a 12 year-old boy in your home. You need to go out and run some errands. What do you do?
Of course, you lock THE BOY in the basement, not the dogs. The boy is smart enough to get out of the basement and the dogs kill him. That ain't YOUR fault. The boy should have stayed in the basement.
My aching ass.
This story reminds me a lot of some of the comments I received after I blogged about shooting a cat out of a tree in my back yard. Animal lovers were OUTRAGED by my brutal, heartless behavior. The cat climbing the tree to kill a bunch of baby birds in their nest was just "being a cat" and animals have rights, too. I was a big, red-necked asshole for popping the cat with a pellet gun.
Unlike some other folks, I see a big difference between animals and people. Those dogs that killed the 12 year-old boy were just "being dogs." How can you possibly find anything wrong with that?
When Quinton was born, we had Bud, a 90-pound chow-lab mix who was a very aggressive dog, despite having his nuts clipped as a pup. (I sometimes called him "Bud Lite"). I warned Jennifer when Quinton was first learning to crawl that if Bud ever even growled at Quinton, I would drag the dog outside and shoot him on the spot. And I meant it, too. I will not tolerate a dog that bites a child.
I never had to shoot Bud. In fact, that big, hairy bastard put up with more shit from Quinton than I ever thought possible. My little boy would crawl into the kitchen, find Bud and give anatomy lessons. "EYE! EYE!" he said, while poking Bud in the eye with his finger. Bud just turned his head. "NOSE! NOSE!" while poking Bud in the nose. "TAIL! TAIL!" while tugging on Bud's tail.
Bud put up with every bit of that, with no more than an occasional sigh. If you wanted to make Bud angry, on the other hand, let somebody fuck with Quinton. Bud got righteously outraged by that and was ready to fight to the death. When strangers came to the house, Bud always stayed between them and Quinton, just to make sure they had no evil intentions toward my boy.
He understood family and in his doggy mind, Quinton belonged to HIM, too. And it was his job to protect the boy. Bud was one fine dog.
And I've got absolutely NO tolerance whatsoever for people who keep dogs that are bad enough to make you lock your child in a basement for his protection when you leave the house. That's just plain sick, twisted and insane.
But what the hell? They were just being dogs. And now a 12 year-old boy is dead because some California nutball had some really fucked-up priorities. But you really can't fault her animal-loving compassion.
At least she didn't pop either dog in the ass with a pellet gun.
I was born in San Francisco, and 99% of the time, all the nutjobs, idiots, gays, and any other crazies ALL CAME FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE!
Mostly because their shit wasn't tolerated wherever they hailed from, so they come to California because they think, it's California and anything goes.
I sincerely wish it were legal to throw out anyone who wasn't born in California. And I'm not just talking about illegals.
The huge influx of people has RUINED this once great state. It is to blame for the traffic, the congestion, and the sky high real estate prices.
If you see, hear, or read about someone acting like a horse's patoot in California, please know that the odds are excellent that this idiot is NOT a native!
Anybody that has pit bulls and small children and leaves them alone in the same house ought to be dragged off and shot. Having said that, I wonder if Rob knows the difference between an apple and an orange?
That mother has no sense. She commented, "It was Nicky's time to go." What an idiot!
It says the officer shot the dog when called to the
scene. Seems like that is treating the symptoms and not the cause. He should have shot the mom too !
Where are all those who questioned your humanity for shooting--and not killing--a cat? I want to see them justify keeping this dog alive after it merely, as you say, "did what dogs do."
That twisting of logic and morals should be entertaining, if nothing else.
Yeah, sounds like that "mother" had a little too much Valium in her medicine cabinet. Wonder how she will feel when those dogs are killed? "Oh, it was their time to go, too."
Why the hell didn't she lock those dogs in the basement instead of her kid? The kid was probably trying to get out to use the toilet.
I hope she gets some variation of manslaughter with a dash of child abuse and neglect thrown in.
I made the mistake of telling some animal loving nutjob how my mother killed our bulldog (had a brain tumor and went wild) before it ripped me apart as a baby.
She made some clucking sound like my mom made the wrong choice. Gee, I'm sorry(?)
I'm glad my mom was like this dumbass in your story. Hey, I love dogs, but my kids will always come first.
Assrot you need to be dragged off and shot! I had a very loving, gentle pitbull who would never have hurt a child. It's the the breed but the owner that makes them bad.
And yes, that mother needs to be dragged off and shot for not having the sense to lock up the dog instead of her own child.
shit that should have said not the breed
LIVEY, I've been dragged off and shot a few times. They never got it right. If they ever do I hope they bury me next to my dogs. I guess you leave your kids home alone with your pitbulls?
Assrot, apparently you have been shot by men, a woman would get it right the first time.
As far as my kids, they were teenagers when I had the 1 pitbull and yes I left them home with him because they had to protect him. They were far more vicious than he ever could be.
And before you shoot off that mouth of yours again, my children are now 19, 22, and 24.
The mom does not need to be dragged of fand shot. She needs to be wounded, her pants stuffed with raw meat and then tossed into a room full of HUNGRY dogs. Then we shoot what is left, "cause we do not want her to "suffer". Then we can all feel better by saying it was her "time".
Sounds like you're the one doing all the shooting from the mouth LIVEY. Typical female. Never can just shutup and go on. Got to yap no matter what. Yak, Yak, Yak. No wonder men drink so much.
I once had an Akita (Japanese breed, looks like a large husky), and he was gentle and playful as hell to my immediate family, but once my Aunt tried to pet him, he came within an inch or so of ripping her neck out.
No wonder the Imperial Elite used these things as guard dogs in Old Japan (do they still?)
The mother in this case said that the reason she didn't lock the dogs (male and female; the female was in heat) in the basement was because she was moving and there were bags of clothes down there....and she was afraid the dogs would tear the bags up.
So she locked the boy down there instead.
Poor kid. Too bad she can't be forced to see what it was like for him to get mauled by those two dogs.
Apparently, the police shot the female - it was probably the male that was more aggressive, but no matter - they both took part.
I don't trust pit bulls. Nevel have and never will.
Assrot after you left this message on my site:
"That ain't no pitbull. That is a sooner, a heinz 57. Nice looking dog though. Please don't shoot me in the ass with a pellet gun. It smarts. :-) "
I was beginning to think I might possibly have misjudged you. Until I read your last comment here.
For that comment, forget the pellet gun, I'll cut your pencil dick off with my chainsaw, shove it up your ass and stuff it in your mouth!
ANY dog can be turned into a killing machine given the wrong set of circumstances. Pit bulls do NOT have the market cornered on attacks...just like Assrot doesn't have the market cornered on asshats.
Stop it LIVEY. You're making me horny.
I bought a miniature collie (Shetland Sheepdog) when my boys were ages 5 and 6....
She was (and is) the sweetest thing......
If she EVER even hinted that she was gonna snap or bite at any of us, she would have been outta here.....
She is now 11, sweet....and as good as gold....matter of fact, she is the only one who doesnt give me any trouble...
Rob likes nothing better than to stir up a good hornets nest. He loves it when people get pissed off and names starts to flying. I think it is what he lives for. That and dragging people off to shoot them.
The problem with pit bulls is that once they've got you they don't let go, thats why they're so dangerous with little kids. The more you fight the more they bite. No pitbulls don't have the market corner on attacks but they do have a much higher risk of it. Thats why large cities like Detriot and Miami outlaw them.
This mother was an absolute idiot. She should be sterilzed or just drug off and shot. No more kids should die at her hands. Lock the kid up and leave the dogs loose, what an asshat.
Alli the lock jaw thing is false. Those pitbulls that do lock their jaws, have been trained to do so by someone holding them up in the air while they are biting on something. It is not a trait of the breed itself.
Yes they have strong jaws, but they do not automatically lock once they bite.
Textbook strawman argument.
Gordon have you ever read actual facts about pitbulls or are you one of the millions of simple minded idiots?
Between the two of us, Lively, the only simple minded idiot is you.
My "strawman" comment was directed at Rob's comparison between cats killing birds and pit bulls killing kids.
Why don't you hesitate next time you feel like name calling. Save yourself some embarassment.
Pit bulls don't have a locking jaw. However, since they were originally bred to bait bulls, they were bred to not let go of their prey no matter what. Whether their jaw 'locks' or not isn't the issue...once a pit bites onto something that it wants, it's not letting go for anything.
There are deeper issues when discussing Pit Bull attacks that most people simply don't get. During the domestication of dogs...ALL dogs...any canine showing inappropriate aggression was culled from the herd, so to speak. This prevented human aggressive dogs from propagating and infecting the bloodlines. It's only been since those wonderful 'animal lovers' got in on the act to protect ALL animals at ALL costs that we see dogs that turn on humans. This is especially true with pit bulls...they are a popular dog amongst criminals and morons who ENCOURAGE the breed to be aggressive towards humans. The same can be said for Rotties, Shepards, Chows and ANY other breed of dog.
I stand corrected Gordon, but it takes a lot more than that to embarass me.
The vast majority of time when a dog attacks anyone it is the fault of the trainer, not the dog.Very few dogs are naturally vicious although many breeds are very protective. The problem comes when the dog trains the owner instead of the owner training the dog.
I have trained various hunting dogs and dogs to work livestock. Also worked some with so called attack dogs. I currently have a poodle trained to attack on command-as the song says, sometimes.
ACidman is right, try her for manslaughter. However, this happened in California and the only ones who get jail time in California seems to be the cops.
What got me about the story was how the writer avoided any reference to criminal prosecution. If I'd been the reporter, I would have called up the DA and asked "Are you going to prosecute?" The DA would have said, "Whether we decide to prosecute will depend on the outcome of an ongoing investigation." However, none of that was in the story. We've got a mom who admits locking her kid in the basement and leaving him alone. That in and of itself is a problem. Why the fuck didn't mom take the kid with her? Unless her errands included a bikini waxing, there's no reason the kid shouldn't have gone along. What errands were so important that she had to lock her kid in the basement? Next, the mom said "That was just like Nicholas, to not listen to me when I told him to stay in the basement" (that's a paraphrase, but pretty close to what she actually said). So, the mom knows the dogs are acting nutso, she knows her son is prone to disobeying her, and she locks him in a basement by propping a shovel against the door? That is criminal stupidity. DA's frequently do not prosecute in situations like this because they feel that the parent has already been punished more severely than the law could ever. I think this misses a couple of points. First, prosecuting cases like this educates the public and makes repeat incidents less likely. Second, part of the purpose of our criminal system is to seek justice for the victims -- not simply to punish the criminals. The kid deserves justice. This is the kind of case that can make a career for an ADA, I just hope someone's got the balls to take it on.
i read all the comments and the only
stupid one is some idiot called livey
she said all her children are grown and
she doesn't worry now what about the
kids in her neighborhood or god forbid
her grandkids one day
Livey is right. Pit bulls are not inherently aggressive dogs.
Just look at all the Golden Retriever, Poodle, Labrador Retriever attacks that have ended in a fatality.
OK, back to reality. Certain breeds have been BRED to be aggressive. It's a fucking fact. Just because your single Pit Bull is a sweet one does not negate that fact.
Get the facts before you start name calling, I had the pitbull when my kids were teenagers, they are grown and gone, and the dog is dead now. Just because he was a pitbull did not make him mean. And when he was alive any kid was safer with him than my lab, or the neighbors lab or the other neighbors german shepards.
Obviously you are too small minded to understand the facts so I won't waste my time or Robs bandwidth explaining it to you.
I was a big, red-necked asshole......
Anyone who's been around a while knows you're at most a medium-sized, red-necked asshole.
Sorry, Rob, I couldn't resist.
I want to see round three, Cat
i was in law enforcement for years and i know of three that said after all was said
and done "i know my dog would never hurt
a child" and all three children are in a cold grave i believe there is a time and place
for everything and i think people show that
they are stupid and have no heart when they
take up the arguement to justify the goodness
of a dog when this 12 year old child has not
even been laid to rest i understand the arguements but for GOD sake let this child be buried before people find reasons not to
blame the poor precious dog what i am saying the only thing that would be in the heart and mind of a decent person is THIS 12 TEAR OLD BOY THAT WILL NEVER SEE ANOTHER DAY IN THIS WORLD AND THE
PAINED HE ENDURED BEFORE HE DIED
my last comment livey i read your last post
you are the one that doesn't get it you still talking about your dog the boy is dead the boy is dead the boy is dead he died a terrible death he died a terrible death he died a terrible dead try to pen some grief concerning
the death of this child and not defending
your dog or any dog if you can or you quit wasting rob's bandwith all of what you wrote you haven't showed any sorrow for this child
what so ever he is dead do you know what that means to the people that love him?
Can't see much wrong with John's arguments.
Oh, and with all due respect, John, ever heard of commas or periods or multiple sentences within a paragraph? I can understand if you're angry concerning what we're currently talking about and it affected your typing (lord knows that's happened to me before), but run-on sentences are generally harder for most of us to understand than properly-formed paragraphs.
obviously you only see what you want to see, I said in the beginning that woman should be dragged off and shot for locking up her kid instead of her dog!
Next time your sober try to think of something intelligent to say.
Some people just should not be parents. It's beyond being an animal lover. This moron not only should have NOT locked her son in the basement, since he was smart enough to figure out how to get out (perhaps the dogs might not have been), but she should have taken her son with her, as someone above has said.
She's got the rest of her life to live with her guilt I suppose. I'm not sure that's punishment enough. And I'm wondering where the father is during all this? If she didn't trust her dogs (or at least the male), why didn't she crate it (in a nice steel cage) and keep it (both actuallhy) in the basement. Then, it (they) would have had to not only break out of the crate but then break out of the basement.
Personally, I don't feel she really gave a rat's fine hairy ass about her kid or her pets. But that's just me.
livey obviously you only want to see what you want to see it not the woman not the dog child it is what the small child had to go
through wheather a dog wheather he was shot in the head ran over by a truck died of
cancer his mother or father could of murdered him shooting him
or he could have been ran over by a it is it is about having compassing about him and nothing else
for as being sober i got married when i was 17 and my wife 15 we have have 2 boys and 2 girls and 5 grandchildren and they have never seen me drink, cuss smoke and i have always been sober we had a little girl died and she is waiting on me and one day she will put her arms around me and say welcome home daddy i won't argue anymore with you but i believe a human is more important in god's eyes than any animal good luck and i wish you and your familf the best
I agree Joni, isn't locking your kid in the basement child abuse?
Show me a case where a cat mauls and kills a 12 year old boy and I'll grant your point. Meanwhile, that's a bullshit comparison and you know it.
Hey LIVEY......save the haranguing for your OWN blog. You, Dear Lady, are just PLAIN ANNOYING!
If that mother TRULY LOVED her child, she would of put that damn aggressive dog to sleep. She did NOT love her kid. She BLAMES the kid. She takes NO responsiblility for her son's death. She is a true bloodless CUNT.
Put the dog down. But a 12 YO ain't a toddler either. Something more went on than's being reported I suspect...
Wow, this degraded from "that woman is a freaking moooooron" to yowling and spitting over dog jaws locking and grammar and wow I am so in agreement with Dana.
Now, is someone going to bitch about my *lack* of commas?
Hmm...seems to me that if you don't like what you see in the comments, don't read them. Fairly simple. Comments are made for debating and I'm sure ROB will come in and crack some heads together if he doesn't like what he sees. And, as far as I know, he doesn't really give a shit who says what, as long as it's not in a thesis-length post.
He gets off on this shit...it strokes his ego LOL.
Chablis you are such a wise woman!
I feel sorry for any man that was married to Livey or Chablis, those guys have already survived hell.
That is all.
Forgetting the dogs for a moment...
What if the mother locked her son in the basement, and while she was away the house caught fire and burned her son up because he couldn't get out of the basement? It would seem obvious that the prosecutor should bring charges against her then. So why not charge her over the dogs?
James I used to think you were an intelligent man.
No arguments here. I feel sorry for the poor bastard too LOL.
The mother was a frickin' idiot and her negligence got her kid killed. Aggressive breeds are just like anything else that's potentially dangerous, in that they need to be handled with a certain amount of intelligence. If it EVER gets to the point where you fear your pet, it is time to get rid of it. Waiting until your pitt-bulls maul your child to death before puttign them down ain't gonna work.
Eric, good point. And she wasn't out a dime for that either. Looks like the local authorities did that for her too.
It's all wrapped up a bit too nicely, isn't it?