Gut Rumbles

November 09, 2004

a poll

I read this post with great interest. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I'm not too far out of the mainstream with my opinions about the War on Terror, but I'm not exactly IN the mainstream, either.

Would you favor or oppose the following measures to combat terrorism?

1. Working through the United Nations to strengthen international laws
Favor 87% Oppose 9%

Just as a feel-good gesture, I probably would favor that proposal, but I still believe that the UN is a fucking corrupt, incompetent clown-convention and it doesn't have the balls, the will or the ability to enforce International Law. I see no problem with granting the UN lip-service, just to make the preening poultroons happy, as long as we don't listen to anything they have to say.

2. U.S. air strikes against terrorist training camps?
Favor 83% Oppose 13%

Oh, HELL YES! Rain death from the sky on those murderous bastards. Blow them into bits so small that ants can carry the corpses away. Then, blow them up some more. If they want to be martyrs, let's give them every bit of assistance possible.

3. Attacks by U.S. ground troops against terrorist training camps?
Favor 76% Oppose 20%

See my answer to question #2. Kill the bastards before they get a chance to kill us. If we're going to call this a war, then let's fight it like one. Kill them all.

4. Assassination of individual terrorist leaders?
Favor 68% Oppose 27%

I've always puzzled over our reluctance to use assassination as a tool of war. It seems perfectly legitimate to me (you think the terrorists would balk at assassinating OUR President if they could?) and I believe that often, when you kill the head, the body dies. Israel should have assassinated Arafat years ago.

5. Using racial profiling in airport security checks?
Favor 44% Oppose 50%

See how deeply ingrained Political Correctness is in our society today? 50% of the people answering that question obviously believe that just because Arab males between the age of 20 and 42 were responsible for... well, 100% of the 9/11 terrorist attacks... that's no reason to SUSPECT Arab males of any potential wrongdoing when they want to board an airplane. No, wave Apu-Abdul right on through and search that Japanese woman in the wheelchair, just to be "fair." My aching ass.

6. Using torture to extract information from suspected terrorists?
Favor 29% Oppose 66%

I may surprise some people here. I do not believe that torture EVER is justified, under ANY circumstances. I'm not talking about sleep-deprivation or psychological trickery or putting panties on someone's head. I'm talking about vise-grips to the genitals, ripping out fingernails, using cattle-prods or just beating the shit out of somebody. That's barbaric behavior and we should not countenance it.

How about that? I'm a bloodthirsty, war-like bastard who wants our enemies dead, dead, dead by whatever means we can find... but I don't believe in torture under any circumstances. If we stoop that low, we're as sick as the people we are fighting.

Does that make any sense?


Not only does that make sense, you make the most sense outta this crap that I've encountered so far, anywhere.

But, me being so completely pissed off about a coupla issues, I hafta disagree about #1 and 'sorta' disagree about #6.

It seems to me that the UN can pass all the laws it wants to about this shit, but what good will that do when the terrorists aren't your basic "law-abiding citizens" in the first place?

And, about #6... there are three reasons I think the way I do about that.
First 'reason' I feel like I do is a visceral reaction more than anything else. Frankly, I'm still angry because of what was done to our men in Nam. We followed the stupid fucking rules then and "they", the enemy, didn't. What's that old saying about "those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it"?

Second, again... these people do NOT follow any kinda rules except their own, just like those Vietnamese bastards did about 30 years ago.
The Geneva Conventions are a joke, as was proved during the Viet Nam war and as has been proved time and again by these spineless prick terrorists these days.
If we keep being "Mr. & Mrs. Politeness-People", we are gonna get our asses kicked. It's like showing up at a gun fight with a pocket knife. Or being in a street fight and you're the only one going by Pro boxing rules.

After a while, it stops being "proper" and starts to become "stupid".

And, I said that I 'sorta' disagree about torture... The reason I said 'sorta' was because I'm not entirely comfortable with the fact that this is how I feel about it now. But, goddamn it, sometimes being "just as bad as they are" or "sinking to their level" is exactly what needs to happen. For instance, when it's all they understand...

It's sad, but it's also true.

AND, it's a truism for lots of facets of life.... schoolyard bullies, those a-hole kind of people who'll dog you til ya scream in their face just once then they're all nicey-nice, and don'tcha think if men were able to fuck women back every bit as hard as they fuck men in Family Court a lot of that shit would stop?
I do.

The cold, hard, sad fact is that there are some people who just cannot be reasoned with, taught or changed and they live their lives just begging to be killed.

Terrorists are exactly those kind of people.

If, ultimately, we're gonna kill these pieces of shit anyway, why not do whatever THEY CAUSE TO BE NECESSARY to extract any information we can to save American lives and maybe get this shit done and over with?
Hell, it's up to them how bad it gets anyway, right?

And, lastly... immediately after I saw the Nick Berg video, I ceased to think of these murdering cocksuckers as "human", so fuck 'em.

Put 'em through hell before ya send 'em there, ya know?

Posted by: Stevie on November 10, 2004 01:58 AM

There's a saying in the Catholic Church: "Give me a child before the age of 5 and I'll make it a Catholic for life."

A large part of the problem is liberal poison, delivered just as early via gummint indoc centers (aka public schools).

The Enemy sneaks in under the radar and has all day to mold and punish children into liberal automatons.

I'm at a loss to explain how else grown adults, already under the gummint gun, slaving away at unpleasant jobs (90% of Americans hate their jobs) and bearing the huge tax burdens of the welfare state, PANIC when tax CUTS appear.

Posted by: horse with no-- on November 10, 2004 03:16 AM

One more for the road. I disagree only w/ your answer re: torture.

If we caught one of these Arabs, er, old Japanese women terrorists who knew when a suitcase nuke would be detonated in a large American city, I'd have no trouble with seeing her tortured until s/he sang.

Posted by: horse with no-- on November 10, 2004 03:20 AM

Seems to me we are already doing it, just indirectly. When a tango is captured in, say Pakistan, and we let the Pakistanis keep him, we usually let their people do the interrogation while the CIA sits in and "observes".
I have a hard time with this issue. I would like to agree with Rob in that it puts us on the same level as the enemy.
But what if by using methods of torture you uncover a plot that would have killed hundreds of people? Does not saving all those women and children justify the means?
There is no simple answer.

Posted by: Lee on November 10, 2004 08:59 AM

Wil agree with all but number 6, and who gives a shit about the UN. Terrorists by the very nature of their acts have given up any rights to be treated with any humanity. Terrorists do not fear death, but their are worse things than death, we have to put fear into the terrorists, before we will be free.

Posted by: James Old Guy on November 10, 2004 11:28 AM

I totally agree with you on each and every point.

Posted by: Em's Mom on November 10, 2004 12:16 PM

My problem with torture is: I couldn't do it. And I wouldn't want to be around anyone who COULD do it.

Oh, I'm perfectly capable of popping a cap right between your eyes if I thought you deserved it, but I couldn't hook electrodes to your genitals and turn on the juice.

I can be mean as hell... but I'm not sadistic.

Posted by: Acidman on November 10, 2004 12:22 PM

Rob, yeah you could do it, if someone kidnapped Quintion and the only way you could find out where he was involved torture, you would do it. Not saying you would enjoy it, only sadistic people enjoy it, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

Posted by: James Old Guy on November 10, 2004 01:10 PM

After I left my first comment, I was thinking about possible responses to what I expected to be a buncha weenies whining at me about how horrible I am that I have no problem with torture.

One of the things I'm sure of about myself now that I've actually considered it is that I could and would torture one of those murdering bastards or any members of their family, or their friends or anybody who even supports them and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

Not that I have any moral qualms about killin' those sons-a-bitches, but , frankly, that's just too easy for them. Killing them outright is so much what they want, that it seems almost a favor to do that for them.

We don't owe them any favors. Especially none of that magnitude.

And, just in case anybody needs to know how I could not only do that, but actually want to do it, it's easy.

First, I'd think about all the pictures that I've seen drawn by Nam Vets of the torture they went through. (Might get a coupla good ideas spring from that...)

If that ever starts to fade- which I seriously doubt- next is to replay September 11, 2001 in my head, over and over again, pretty much the same way it runs in my head every day anyway, except I wouldn't try to push back down how it makes me feel.

Then, if I was getting tired or something and needed a little more inspiration, I'd remember Nick Berg and the others who I've watched scream and cry as their heads were cut off.

It'd be easy.
It'd be just.
It'd be an honor to do for all the ones they've murdered and the ones they still WANT to murder. (As in: Every single one of us...)

So, I'll take a major cue from these cats of mine that nobody likes much and do what they do before they kill their prey.

Hurt it, make it bleed, make it scream, terrorize it, then when I start to get bored with it, send 'em on to you, Pappy, for the sweet release (to them) of death.

I'd get to do what I've been wanting to do since 9/12/01 and you'd get some target practice. (I know you're a marksman, more or less, but I can't help but hope you'd miss the sweet spot a few times first... )

Works for me.

Posted by: Stevie on November 10, 2004 01:15 PM

And, I'm not sadistic.
I'm just sick and tired of this "terrorist" shit.

I mean, it's not like I go around, normally, wanting to do this kinda shit to people*, but these dickholes are NOT human in the first place, plus they deserve it.
(*Usually, I just wanna punch people who piss me off in the solar plexus... or the throat.)

The difference between me and them is vast and yet very simple...
I want to do whatever is necessary to stop and punish these merciless bastards and if there's an element of vengence in it, so much the better. I want to do it because of the absolutely evil things they've ALREADY DONE and because I know as sure as I'm sitting here that they are planning to do more of the same.

However, the ones they're doing it TO have done NOTHING like what they (the terrorists) have done and therefore, do NOT deserve it.

Sooo... if "innocents" are gonna get that kind of treatment, it's only fitting that the perps gets the same.

I just wish there was something worse, somehow, than torture for those sub-human pieces of shit.

Posted by: Stevie on November 10, 2004 01:36 PM

"See how deeply ingrained Political Correctness is in our society today? 50% of the people answering that question obviously believe that just because Arab males between the age of 20 and 42 were responsible for... well, 100% of the 9/11 terrorist attacks... that's no reason to SUSPECT Arab males of any potential wrongdoing when they want to board an airplane. No, wave Apu-Abdul right on through and search that Japanese woman in the wheelchair, just to be "fair." My aching ass."

What was the race of the people who terrorized the federal building in Oklahoma City? Were they Arabic? Or were they flag-waving, gun-toting, bible-quoting white guys born in America?

Don't you remember all the chest-thumping non-sense about how you and the other gungoons were gonna overthrow the Government when Clinton was president?

Terrorism is also a domestic issue.

Posted by: Mikelx on November 10, 2004 01:51 PM

Yes, but we killed Timothy McVeigh for what he did.

These terrorist pukes get lauded and rewarded by their leaders for what they do, which is why it is up to US to end it.

Just like we did McVeigh.

Posted by: Stevie on November 10, 2004 02:15 PM

I'd favor #1 if international law had not come to be defined as "whatever Khofi pulls out of his ass this week".

Racial profiling works on white ethnicities too. The Israeli's know how to profile, and one of the main groups they keep an eye on is the young Scandinavian women, because they tend to be crazy whores with Laurence of Arabia fetishes.

Re: Torture- we shouldn't practice it, but we should consider countenencing it.

Posted by: Dave Munger on November 10, 2004 07:43 PM
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