May 02, 2003
government frightens me
I like George Bush, but I also believe this story.
That's why government frightens me. We ALWAYS have people willing to be Nazis for a paycheck. We ALWAYS have politicians willing to be Nazis for the power they can wield.
And we ALWAYS have citiizens who remain quiet when the goons haul "the others" away. Yes, even in America.
I could give the ignorant a word of advice, but they wouldn't listen. They don't read history books the way I do. Human Nature has not changed since the dawn of civilization and I doubt that it ever will. We've always had "the others" and some people have always wanted to get rid of them. (Smokers today, anyone?)
That glorious tradition of
MOB RULE democracy, when applied with guns and uniforms, makes us just a slight step above Saddam Hussein. The only real difference is that this kind of government-abuse shit happens and we can bitch about it without going to jail. But we DON'T bitch as long as the long, implacable, merciless arm of government goes after "the others."
If you let them have "the others" now, they won't stop there. They will find OTHER "others." Eventually, YOU will be one of the "others" unless you work for the government.
That's what government DOES!
The goons come for YOU next, you ignorant assnugget! They always have and they always will.
How does it go?
“That government is best which governs least.” Henry David Thoreau, 1849.
Ah, there's text in the post now. That makes more sense.
Yep, I readily believe most things like this.
I started to write a rambling reply, and restarted.
Let me make clear at the start that I approach this topic from an engineering perspective, and an Asperger's perspective, where I just, well, don't, and find it very hard to, buy into the hysteria. Not how my brain works.
1) I allow and agree that there will always be assholes who abuse and twist any kind of power the government gives them.
2) Considering the source (alternet.org), and what I've seen from and about them elsewhere, I have suspicions and doubts about this particular article.
3) I've read a significant minority of the actual PATRIOT act, as opposed to relying on a chain of screeds about how it's violating our civil liberties. While I freely admit that I've not read all of it, or tracked back the 'Act Such-and-Such is now amended from X to X-1, and from Y to Y+1' statements to see what they mean, I would appreciate seeing the calm, rational, objective report of someone who:
a) has, and
b) has no bias against Bush or Ashcroft, and
c) doesn't automatically believe that any increase of security is a personal attack on their liberties.
4) Again, I allow and agree there will always be assholes and that it's our responsiblity as citizens to both watch for them and do something about them, but I also wonder if perhaps some of these assholes are:
a) realizing that, to paraphrase so many others, 'noone in Congress knows what all's in this thing',
b) assuming (perhaps rightly) that few citizens do either, and
c) using that to make up out of whole cloth things that aren't really in the PATRIOT act, just to have something to use to further their abuses of power.
Just my thoughts,
Unfortunately, what IS in "Patriot" Act I is enough to scare anyone with more than a gram of brains, especially as practiced by those few goonish squads that have been allowed [and encouraged] to stretch the parameters far beyond what was envisioned.
It only takes a few agents, fired up by an unholy zeal, to really run rampant over citizens' rights; now we have citizens having to prove innocence instead of 'tother way round. It really does happen!
Mommabear - some specific quotes and context would be appreciated.
"Unfortunately, what IS in "Patriot" Act I is enough to scare anyone with more than a gram of brains"
is what I would like more, specific, unemotionalized information on.
"as practiced by those few goonish squads that have been allowed [and encouraged] to stretch the parameters far beyond what was envisioned.",
Yeah, I wouldn't doubt that, people being people.
I'm not arguing the (potential?) -results-...
I'd just like more info on the 'scary stuff' itself, and what, in an objective evaluation, makes it so scary as written.
As you said, "stretch the parameters far beyond what was envisioned."
I'm trying to figure out what was intended, whether what was intended was in fact such a scary thing, and whether what we need to advocate is 'education' or 'eradication', whether people (including those enforcing) need to know more about what it's SUPPOSED to be about, or whether it's about stuff that we really do need to be screaming about and trying to get rid of, as so many (who tend to pick and choose and scare-quote) suggest.
When I see people picking and choosing their quotes and scare-quoting Patriot 1, whether they're right or not, it decreases the credibility of their judgement on the matter at hand in my eyes.
Lemme start by saying this. I like everything about Ashcroft except what he has done and not done as AG. Busting bong sales? WTF? in wartime. He should have been returned to his Senate seat.
The Patriot Act and the Department of the Fatherland Department are bullshit, not needed and should be shitcanned. The day after his Inauguation, Bush should have fired EVERYBODY at Dept. of Justice and FBI. They are filled with badge-bully Clinton hangers-on, union bureaucrat paperstaplers, clueless wankers and... the places are shot through with straight Communists. It would have been better not to have Justice or FBI while they were being restaffed... Too late for that.
Now that I have said all this... I believe this story is pure Buffalo Sierra. Won't say the name of the chow hall... and the writer is a member of Doctors Without Borders... yeah... and Baghdad Bob.