Gut Rumbles
 

September 29, 2003

and some of you assholes won't stop whining about ashcroft

If Ashcroft is such a neo-Nazi, I would like a couple of real-life examples of how his storm troopers are quashing dissent and silencing free speech in this country. I don't expect any, BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ANY, but leftist hockwads keep bitching about a booger-man that isn't there. What the fuck. Why should I be surprised by that idiotic behavior? They oppose drilling the ANWR and believe in the Koyoto Treaty. Dumbfucks.

Try this on for size.

Performing oral or anal sex will become a crime in Indonesia punishable by up to 12 years in prison.

Sex before marriage and homosexual intercourse will also be outlawed under a moral crackdown by the country's justice ministry.

They'd better build a lot of jails.

I've got some unpleasant news for every blue-nosed Puritan on the face of this planet. People are ALWAYS going to do three things because they are PEOPLE. You can read through 10,000 years of recorded history and discover something that government has NEVER been able to prevent and government has fucked up badly every time it tried.

1) People are going to fuck. People are going to do it no matter what penalty you threaten them with. Prostitution is not called "the world's oldest profession" by accident. He-ing and she-ing is gonna happen, and he-ing and-he-ing will, too. She-ing and she-ing can be outlawed but not prevented, and human beings are pretty imaginative about sex. If someone has an "innie" where someone can poke an "outie," they're, by Bejus, gonna try it. If they LIKE IT, they'll keep doing it, too. Laws won't stop them.

2) People are going to GET FUCKED UP. They're gonna drink and they're gonna do drugs. Altered perceptions are something a lot of people crave. You can make drinking and drugging a crime, but you'll NEVER stop it. All you do is put a lot of people in jail who don't belong there and tie up a lot of law enforcement resources trying to make people stop being people. People won't EVER do that, but murderers, rapists and thieves love it when the cops are doing dope busts instead of coming after them.

3) People are going to GAMBLE. They always have and they always will. You know what is the ULTIMATE form of hipocracy? My STATE runs a lottery, which is a fool's form of gambling. I like to play cards and bet on football games. I am BREAKING THE LAW when I do that, but my chances of winning are one hell of a lot better in a poker game or with my bookie than they are with the lottery. The state sponsors one and outlaws the other. Explain THAT ONE to me.

I think most anti-human-nature people think like this:

The dark art of witchcraft has also attracted the ministry's attention.

A witch doctor or his client found guilty of using black magic to hurt other people could spend up to five years in jail.

"Black magic?" Isn't that a racist term?



Comments

Ashcroft is an idiot. Remember the time the wanker wanted a statue of a woman covered up so her tits were covered? The man's a simpleton. NONE of his interrogations of suspected terrorists amounted to anything. He's a bad man, wanting to do bad things. I want to read, say, go wherever I want. Who's Ashcroft to limit my freedom? Or threaten to do so? Up here, in NH it's live free or die baby, pussy Ashcroft and the Acidman be warned.

Posted by: Rick on September 29, 2003 05:35 PM

Dude--

If you have a clue about John Ashcroft, then the three things you mentioned, you should know he would happily send you to jail for in a NY minute.

The issue is not Ashcroft sending current bad guys to jail, but that the legal precedence (check with your brother), once established in law or by court decision, gives the government ever wider authority over a supposedly free people.

The historical precedents for increasing federal power granted by law or the courts have always had the same ending.

They are employed upon not merely the bad guys, but eventually, also upon the free man.

Expand your horizon beyond just labeling folks as libs and conservatives, and things become clearer.

Jefferson said beware of those who would trade freedom for security--he didn't specify party affiliation.

You are so close to getting it, Buddy. Just a reminder--the Bush administration did not undo the draconian gun laws the libs wanted, but kept them in place. And John Ashcroft is Bush's AG, who enforces that determination.

1 + 1 = ?

Posted by: jb on September 29, 2003 05:36 PM

And for the Record . . .

"Nazi" was merely a nickname for the nationalist socialist party in Germany, which like the communists, wished to expand state power and authority under the guise of security for the populace.

And that is precisely what John Ashcroft stands for and is doing, as did Janet Reno.

But we are safer now, right?

Posted by: jb on September 29, 2003 05:46 PM

Rob,
Are you trying to tell us something with your post about the banning of sodomy in Indonesia?

Only you and Andrew Sullivan seem vexed by this turn of events. Why so worried?

Posted by: Bev on September 29, 2003 05:47 PM

Ashcroft may be many things (I don't think he is all that, but never mind).

However, Ashcroft has never set fire to an entire community, unlike, say, the Democrat AG Janet Reno.

However, if he should wish to do just that, Berkeley, Ann Arbor and the north side of Chicago would be excellent choices...

Posted by: Kim du Toit on September 29, 2003 06:02 PM

OK, so you're an American citizen, you're working at your job, and all of a sudden FBI agents show up at your place of employment and take you away.

They don't charge you with any crime. They just lock you up indefinitely.

Then they go to your home and grab whatever they want--your computers, your financial records, even your kids' videos.

This t is exactly what happened to Mike Hawash, who lives near Portland, Oregon. An Intel software engineer.

He's been behind bars since March 20 as a material witness in a federal terrorism case.

Ashcroft declared his a material witness. To what exactly is unclear.

He's got a wife and three kids who depend on him.

No charges have been filed.

Sound right to you?

,

Posted by: Mathew on September 29, 2003 06:06 PM

I grew up in northern new jersey (well, until I realized you could leave, and did)...my father had a small trucking company in downtown newark. I remember one sunday, I was maybe 6 or 7, he took me down to the place because he wanted to get something he had forgotten. We got there, the place had been broken into, some office equipment and stuff like that taken. He called the police, they came, filled out the forms...they left. He then called Tony, the local family man to whom he paid his other "taxes"...Tony came, looked around, and told not to think about it, he'd see what he could do...two weeks later the office equipment is back, and Tony informs my father that the particular thief had learned his lesson....the cops never got back to dad...also...in Newark, and elsewhere, the mob ran numbers, essentially a lottery. For every dollar they collected, they paid out 75 cents in winnings...let me see now...the mob pays out 75 cents, the state pays out 33 cents on the same damn game...the mob demands protection money from you, but then they deliver on the protection...the state demands protection money, and then don't deliver...and if you don't pay the protection to the state, they don't come and break your arm, they just send you away to a place where some other thug breaks your arm...
ok...who are the real gangsters here?

Posted by: ks on September 29, 2003 06:11 PM

ah, rick, about that statue covering story?
they do that all the time...they put up a blue cover for better tv camera response...though the censorship angle does sound better, doesn't it?

Posted by: ks on September 29, 2003 06:13 PM

mathew...I live in portland...hawash was not a material witness. He was charged with money laundering and subsequently pled guilty...keep up.

Posted by: ks on September 29, 2003 06:16 PM

gee, rob, these are fun...no wonder you seem to have such a good time with this blog.

Posted by: ks on September 29, 2003 06:17 PM

According to the WaPo, NYT, ABC News and BBC Ashcroft personally authorized the Justice Department to buy blue curtains for $6.000 (after renting them several times at 2,000 a pop) to shroud the female figure with one breast exposed, on display since 1936.

He couldn't have his press conference someplace else?

A naked breast, imagine, on a stature. How shameful.

Posted by: Rick on September 29, 2003 06:27 PM

And the largest money-launderer in the world?

Hmmm . . . Uncle Sam.

Posted by: jb on September 29, 2003 06:27 PM

If I wre President, I would have LIVE NEKKID WIMMEN with TWO BARE BREASTS at every press conference. I wouldn't let them appear on camera, but I'd make the press LOVE ME!

Posted by: Acidman on September 29, 2003 06:38 PM

I haven't kept up to date with the Hawash case, but he definitely was first detained--for almost a month--on the Ashcroft backed 'material witness' policy. He was later indicted so the material witness status automatically went away. He was never charged, to the best of my knowledge, with money laundering, but he did plead guilty to one charge in the indictment because he drove somebody to the airport on his was to Afghanistan and gave the man some cash.
He paid a $100. fine and agreed to cooperate with the continuing investigation.

Posted by: Lootie on September 29, 2003 06:44 PM

I don't think the patriot act is a very good idea at all...but I also don't think the AG of the US was offended by classical statuary...and would prefer to use Occam's Razor and go for the simple explanation...the camera guys told him they needed a blue background and it was too late to change the venue.

Posted by: ks on September 29, 2003 06:47 PM

does anyone acually read the news?...here's the story on hawash...
PORTLAND, Ore. — A software engineer pleaded guilty Wednesday to a charge of aiding the Taliban (search), agreeing to testify against other suspects in exchange for the dropping of other terrorism charges.
Maher "Mike" Hawash (search), one of the so-called "Portland Seven," will serve at least seven years in federal prison under the deal, which was approved by U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft (search).

Hawash pleaded guilty to conspiring to provide services to the Taliban. Prosecutors agreed to drop charges of conspiring to levy war against the United States and conspiring to provide material support for terrorism.

doesn't sound so simple as paying a $100 fine...

Posted by: ks on September 29, 2003 06:50 PM

yeah!...think a robert palmer presidential moment...good suit, good hair, and naked voluptuous women behind him...I'm with Rob...now that would be presidential!

Posted by: ks on September 29, 2003 06:53 PM

Lootie and Matthew are idiots. Hawash was very a bad man who pled guilty to very bad stuff. Do you have another example, you boys who cried wolf?

I don't expect Lootie and Matthew to change - they'll just keep repeating the same lies over and over again -- but I thought that the rest of you might like to know.

Posted by: "Edward" on September 29, 2003 11:07 PM

KS
Thanks for explaining to the two numbnuts, Matthew & lootie why it's important to do more than just read the paper. Basic understanding of what you've read is also important.

Posted by: logiccop on September 29, 2003 11:21 PM

Back to the original subject....
In Indonesia, this is nothing new. I lived there for most of 1995. At that time, they wanted to outlaw condoms, since the "caused" immoral behavior.
As if banning rubbers would stop people from having sex - it just wouldn't be 'safe sex'

Posted by: tdracer on September 29, 2003 11:31 PM

Matthew-

Hey dumbass read a newspaper before you whine about shit!! Hawash pled GUILTY 2 months ago, sounds like the Big Bad Ashcroft did something right!!!!

Posted by: Jim on September 29, 2003 11:32 PM

Regarding the topic of the post (as opposed to the headline), there are stupid laws on the books in many states of the US where oral sex or "sodomy" (the definition of which varies by the state and law) is illegal. So, Indonesia is following a tradition that is a part of the heritage of the US legal system in terms of what is outlawed if not the punishment imposed.

Regarding the headline, I *am* concerned about Ashcroft and the Patriot Act because the founding fathers of the United States regarded limiting the powers of government as so important that they put in the Constitution the requirement that there be no searches and seizures WITHOUT the review of a judge. Aspects of the Patriot Act weaken this provision of the Constitution, and some parts of the proposed Patriot Act II weaken it further. Even if I'm doing nothing illegal, I do NOT want the government or any agency of the government to have the legal right to search my property with a "secret search warrant". Secrecy is the death of democracy.

Posted by: Jack on September 29, 2003 11:35 PM

{Sung to the tune of "Okie From Muskogie")

I'm proud to be a homo from Como
a place where even fags can have some fun,
we still get some browneye down at the courthouse
and suckin dicks is still our number 1!

Posted by: Clyde on September 29, 2003 11:50 PM

Actually Rob, "Black magic" isn't racist at all.
It's black as in dark, evil, sinister, cloacked. The flip side is White magic - pure, white light of the gods and goddesses, good. Same idea as the good cowboys wearing white hats and the bad cowboys wearing black hats. The only ones who label magic as black or white are the ones that practice 'white' magic.
They have to make themselves less 'pagan' and heathen to the Xians, because magic of any kind is not a Xian thing to do.

Posted by: Greg on September 30, 2003 12:59 AM

Looks like I am not the only one to thoroughly enjoy this post and link to it.

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Posted by: Pietr on September 30, 2003 01:25 AM

In Missouri, we elected a DEAD MAN (Carnahan) instead of Ashcroft's lame ass. He is a religious crackpot, a scared and dangerous man. Otherwise, you're right on.

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Posted by: parking_god on September 30, 2003 08:23 AM

JB finish the thought....."The historical precedents for increasing federal power granted by law or the courts have always had the same ending." ....AND we all know once them sneaky liberal bastards get back in power they will rape, plunder and pillage like there is no tomorrow because of this "precedent". Has anyone been attacked by David Koresh lately? Bill Clinton never met a man or woman he could'nt have investigated. So NOW your worried? Cry me a friggin river.

Posted by: Rumbear on September 30, 2003 10:02 AM

How amusing.

The totally idiotic statements made in castigating Ashcroft reminds me that, at heart, some of us are monkeys. Well at least they aren't "Monkees" so that's a bonus.

Fact is that everything that Ashcroft has done has been perfectly legal supported by court orders and signed off by a judge. Everything that Ashcroft has done has been supported by laws that have long been in existence.

Another fact, for the factually flawed, is that the Patriot Act is largely a collection of legal tools, normally used in other types of cases, that have now been made legal for terrorist cases. Another interesting tidbit is that the Patriot Act allows government agencies to communicate with one another, something that had been illegal for decades due to the anti-CIA hysteria among Democrats.

You want to point a finger at who is responsible for the intelligence lapses of 9/11? Point the finger at the Democrats in Congress.

If you have the courage.

ed

Posted by: Ed on September 30, 2003 12:49 PM

Rick: the story about covering the statue was incorrectly reported, and KS is right. Sorry to challenge your faith in the infallibility of big-media reporting.

Posted by: John Tabin on September 30, 2003 03:52 PM

Once someone gets jailed for saying something that's not a direct threat, I'll believe the uber-anti-ashcroft people. But for now, if he jails another terrorist, I don't really care.
I have not heard of a single perma-jailing that was not because he was in the Taliban or Al Quda, they just don't round up people from anywhere and put them in Guantanamo.

Posted by: Greg on September 30, 2003 04:34 PM

Has anyone on the Left bothered to stop an think where the laws that Ashcroft enforces come from? He's not pulling these things out of a hat, and he's not making them up. He's doing the job he's supposed to do, which is enforce the damn laws that the government makes! But for this, you want to insult him. Bravo. You've just shown how utterly mindless you truly are.

So far every charge hurled at him has been proven false. "He covered up a statue!" No, that was the TV crew who wanted a blue backdrop for the shoot. Sorry to break up your little wet dream. "He imprisoned people without charging them!" So far, the examples you've given have been bunk. Hawash has plead guilty to damn near every charge against him, including aiding the Taliban. Do you have any others? No, then PISS OFF!

When you ignorant shits can actually make a point without having it thrown right back into your stupid faces, I'll listen. But right now, the Leftists in this country have as much credibility as a pile of pigshit, only the pigshit smells better.

Posted by: Raging Dave on September 30, 2003 06:21 PM

and the score is...

A-man: 1
Greg- 1
Pietr- gets a weenie award and a goose egg.

Acidman, you provide endless hours of entertainment on foggy, lonely days. :) meeow.

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For every action there is an equal and opposite government program.

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Gratitude is the most exquisite form of courtesy.

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